to end the seventh year of the third millenium. here is an old world story.
once upon a time, a long time ago, when brahmadatta was king in benares, the boddhisattva came to the earth as a wise hare. he lived near the bank of the ganges with his three friends, the otter, the jackal and a monkey. all were smart enough to listen to the words of the boddhisattva.
each day these four would each go out and get their food in their own hunting ground.
and in the evening they came together again.
the wise hare advised his three companions on the principles of truth, teaching that alms were to be given, that moral laws were to be observed and holy days to be kept. they accepted his guidance in all practical and spiritual matters.
one day the hare observed the sky and looking at the moon knew that the next day would be a fast day. he announced to the otter, the jackal and the monkey , "tomorrow is a fast day. for one who stands fast in observance of the sacred, almsgiving brings a great reward. therefore, feed any beggar that comes your way by giving them food from your own table." they all agreed and then they each went to their own home.
the next day, early in the morning, the otter went down to the bank of the river. it happened that a fisherman had landed seven red fish and had buried them in the sand to preserve them while he went down the river to fish some more. the otter smelled the buried fish and shouted three times to the air " does anyone own these fish?" and not seeing any owner he dragged the string of fish back into the woods where he lived. then, he was thinking how virtuous he was in waiting to eat them until a more fitting time.
at the same time, as the sun rose, the jackal also went out to look for food. he found in the hut of a field watchman, a lizard cooked on a spit and a bowl of yogurt. and after crying out thrice, he collected the lizard and the bowl of yogurt in his mouth and returned to his lair. he told himself "i will eat them when the time is right." and reflected on how virtuous he was.
the monkey, in his search for food gathered a clump of ripe mangoes and took them to his spot in the high trees; he also meant to wait to eat them. and sitting back on his haunches considered how virtuous he was.
but the boddhisattva, when he came out intending to graze on the kusa grass, the thought came to him," i can't offer grass to any beggars who come, and i have no oil or rice or anything to offer them; if any man appeals to me for food, i will just have to offer them my own flesh to eat."
as soon as he conceived this plan, sakka's white marble throne began to grow hot. discovering the cause, he decided to put the hare to the test.
but first he went to the otter's cave disguised as a brahmin.
"what do you want." asked the otter, "why are you standing there?"
"i am hungry, and if i had a little to eat i could better perform my priestly duties.", was the answer.
"very well, i will give you some food."
then, handing over the seven red fish, he spoke these lines:
"seven red fish i dug from ganges flood
eat your fill and stay within this our wood.."
"let it be until tomorrow when i will return."
then he went to the jackal and asked for some alms. the jackal also promised his food.
"a lizard and yogurt are here for your meal,
this flesh and curd i wrongfully did steal
it's what i have, but take them i pray
and deign you within this wood to stay."
said the brahmin, "it will wait 'til tomorrow.", then thanked the jackal and left.
next he found the monkey and begged from him something to eat. and the monkey readily offered him the mangoes with,
"an icy stream, and mangoes ripe, and pleasant greewood shade
yours to enjoy if you can dwell content in this forest glade."
"i will return tomorrow, it can wait until then.", said the brahmin.
then sakka, still disguised as the brahmin found the wise hare.
"what have you for a hungry priest to eat."
the boddhisattva was delighted by his request and said,
"oh brahmin, you came to the right place. i will give you something i have never given before,
but you shall not have to break the moral code by taking animal life.
go, friend, and build a little fire. then let me know and i will throw myself in it.
then when my body is roasted, you shall eat my flesh and fulfill your priestly duties."
and he spoke these lines:
"not sesame, nor beans or rice have i to give,
but roasted with fire my flesh i yield, if with us you will live."
so sakka with miraculous power caused a fire to appear.
rising from his bed of kusa grass the hare shook himself three times to shake any insects from his fur. then offering his whole body, he sprang up and like a royal swan landing on a cluster of lotuses, in an ecstacy of joy, he fell on the heap of live coals.
but the flames were cool, and he said,
"brahmin, this fire you've kindled is icy cold. it's never going to cook my flesh. what does it mean?"
"wise hare, i am sakka come to put your virtue to the test."
"if you and all the world tried me in this manner, i will never be unwilling to give." declared the hare. sakka with a voice having the depth of a lions roar said,
"because of your virtue you shall be known by all for aeons."
and squeezing a mountain between his hands, with the essence extracted,
painted the shape of the hare on the orb of the moon.
then returned to his place in heaven.
afterwards the four wise friends lived together harmoniously until they each departed to fare according to their deeds.
this story was told by the master while living at jetavana.
I need to find the Jàtaka.I know the story is about the wise hare – the future Buddha – but what jumps out at me is the "morality" of those whose nature is to gather what others have hunted. Perhaps you can be what you are and still be good?
You´re right. We don´t know as long as we´re speaking hypothetically. Maybe we´re just as bad as the rest of them?
i hear that god doesn't despise anyone.i got my (e.b. cowell translation) three volume set from samuel weiser in new york city.cambridge university press 1895 but it has been published as recently as 1973 by the pali text society london.motilal banarsidass (sole distributor)bungalow road, delhi, india 110-007you could write to banarsidass, but it's been a long time i've had this set.
Reading this I think of Abraham being ready to sacrifice his own son to God.Stuff like that is a lot to ask for. I always thought about the Abraham-situation, wondering how this could be a good thing to do, since manslaughter is a sin.I ask the same question now. Would I let myself be killed in order to save another person? Yes, I hink I would if the other person was a child – but otherwise?Need to ponder……..
i guess we can't know what we would do in a given situation until it arises. and i agree if it were a child and all things pointed to some inevitability… sure. i had my life, let him have his. but you never know.i know one thing… i wouldn't sacrifice my son's life for faith.it's a strange story.
or just as good as the best of them. we can at least take our medicine like men. we can grow. we can be more human and more giving of ourselves…. that's why i like this story.
That is certainly the God to whom I pray. If God wasn't compassionate, there wouldn't be any reason to emulate her.
So, crying out three times and getting no answer meant it was okay and they were free and clear to steal? I mean, since they had to ask, doens't that, in itself, mean, they must have known that the food did indeed belong to someone. So, this illustrates lower-animal behavior is justified? I know this isn't the point of the whole narrative, but why did the writer goof up a story with trying to show acceptance for theft? Somewhere, I am sure, there are people who now use this same concept to justify their getting and taking anything from anybody.GRRRRRRRRR!!!
I had never seen this story before and quite a story it is. It does make me think of Abraham being tested by the Lord with a sacrifice of his son, as was mentioned by Allan in his comments above. It also makes me think about a story I saw on the news one day a while back. A girl was dying and needed a kidney transplant. No one in her family matched her rare blood type, and when the principal of her school heard of her plight he volunteered his kidney. His blood type matches hers and needless to say, the girl & her family are very touched by his offering.
Interesting how such similar "great stories" find their way into religions all ove rthe world (and across time).
I use "Her," beceause my God embodies characteristics that we associate with the feminine, not because God is necessarily female. I assume that God in Christian parlance is "He," because the Church was making a patriarchal power play. On this subject, I'm no scholar, and I could be out in left field. I do, however, enjoy the idea of a God who is caring and compassionate – motherly, if you will.
matthew… i am just going to take that in the best spirit of our experimental times. "her"and, i have come to the conclusion that people got around in ancient times a lot more than we think. it may have taken a lifetime to go from india to finland… but storytellers were 'the rage' werever they went.sometimes i'll find a story seemingly originating as far away as finland and india. the details are different but the psychological effect is the same. people often remember the details badly, but they remember the impact.mom,sorry i got your grrrr going. what can i say. this is an ancient story. i think it may be something like 25% of people are parasitic, another quarter are thieves, one way or another, for some it's easy, like the monkey, for the final fourth, some obey their consciences and give of themselves unstintingly. the otter, the jackal and the monkey are all well meaning beings and they appreciate a glimpse of the spiritual now and then.in the old days, people really did shout out, but in the marketplace, if they found, let's say a diamond ring… if no one claimed it, it was theirs.i liked this tale because of the 'game' spirit of the hare. also, that the god sakka notices even the small things that go on in his/her/it's world.marcus… that's what i mean. charity that astounds us all.
God is so cool. God can be female, male, or anything at all. Such a great mystery. My God is full of love and a caring parent and protector! Whatever God wants to be is fine with me. 🙂
matthew,where do you get the idea that men are not caring and compassionate…that's what jumped out at me.yes, mom, god is the coolest of the cool. it's not his fault that the world has gone crazy. or is it?
Oh , I know caring, compassionate men. I – society/culture? – just associate some traits as more masculine, and some as more feminine.
words are so dangerous. i always i hope i can catch myself before a blanket statement reaches the air waves… and i usually correct myself out loud. what am i saying… all so and so go lickity split… how the hell would i even know? :faint:probably men and women are the same in all ways except physically. the rest is just a myth. and mythunderstanding… was i lisping?anyway my somewhat belabored point is that language is a flawed tool even at its best, when terms are defined. it's still form substituting for substance.
Well, there are interesting truths underlying every unjust stereotype. How many of the last 100 wars that come to mind were started by or perpetuated by women? The traits we associate with matriarchy and partiarchy aren't solely ours – many disparate cultures make similar associations.On reflection, I think one reason I use "Her" is to make people stop and think. It took a lot of Catechism to make me finally realize that the Church wasn't describing my God. There's probably more to that than there is to my own associations. God is such a big thing, and yet we think we can describe it with a word. Or even a group of words. We're pretty silly, sometimes. Interestingly, my aunt is a nun, and she's probably more liberal than I am. She is at odds with the Church on just about every topic on which a person could be at odds with the Church. But she can find theological underpinnings that permit her to believe what she believes and still be an integral part of the Church. I'm not nearly so flexible, unfortunately.
matthew, the first part… i just say how do we even know that?for example, maybe george w's wife egged him on… maybe it was agamemnon's wife who said the greeks must go to war over helen.it says somewhere in the bible that god intends for us to be unable to grasp the significance of his existence. phenomenologically, it just is true that we exist. we suspect that there must be a reason, but we usurp his will with our own because we are dense when it comes to higher forces. if there is a sense or aim to our existence we think we can find it out. but in every case it becomes wait and see.so, as in thomas aquinas's first proof for the existence of god (i perceive that there is a world, and i didn't make it.),we admit that it is reasonable that a higher being, not necessarily male or female, but an intelligence, for its own reasons manifest the universe. not only that but maintains that giganticness with laws.so, the most we can do is try to understand those laws. because it's more intelligent to understand than to just exist in a kind of blind survival mode.
I'm with you. And we don't know that.Still, we place bits of our world into contexts we can understand. Language creates blinders or boundaries that both inform our understanding and limit it. We have a need to treat the novel in ways that are familiar. My first day in church, I am apt to behave appropriately, because I can associate it with something I am familiar with: school. The "teacher" is in the front, the rest of us sit quietly and face forward. As long as I have a school experience to guide me, I am not going to blurt out obscenities in Church. I point to this article which, interestingly enough, uses the bible prominently in describing the way we chunk bits of information to make them fit into our understanding of the world – a process which helps turn the physical world into a social world.Zerubavel, E. (1991). Islands of Meaning, in The fine line: Making distinctions in everyday life. Chicago. University of Chicago Press.
languange also comforts us in that we think because we can name and define everything that we know it. we only know it in our heads.the "islands of meaning" though interesting is nothing new and mostly ticks off the various kinds of conditioning which trap us into an illusory world. once again, its all on one level, even if its moral.because the imperative morality is subjective to the community. sure, they will punish us if we deviate from the norm. but we conform out of fear not out of knowledge. we are not free.one thing i got was 'define' de fini find the limitations. so back to god…. what are god's limits? if god is everything as some claim, then he is responsible for all the pain we experience and all the joys.i believe we need to take a stand and not be at all fatalistic and take a beating lieing down. i think we need to be practical and intelligent. for that we need to work on ourselves on all levels.supposing we are a soul having a physical experience. we tend to think we are a body which contains some kind of consciousness. if we have a soul, what's it doing here? what's the ultimate purpose for creating beings like humans? we work on ourselves, gain more and more information and then die. seems a little futile.but if god is working in mysterious ways as some people love to say, maybe we do need to take heed to a higher purpose. at least live as if my life has some meaning; as if all my deeds can be weighed on a scale which determines objective merit and even glory for persisting with courage and fortitude until its over.so my god is generous in that i have a choice. and maybe i am a deviant in bending my conditioning to suit my way of making life serve me… just in case.not sure this will make any sense to you. but simply, i put the emphasis on verification. i touch the fire… it burns…. but will it burn again if i touch it again? i touch it once more, it still burns. i stop touching it. then i forget and touch the fire again. it still burns. i need to remember to take heed to what i know.
Love my Merrian Webster Dictionary! How talented and dedicated people are to make sure a thing, especially the originators!!!
"Islands of meaning" do more than trap us in illusion – they also permit us to function in novel and unfamiliar situations. If we didn't make associations, we'd have never learned to feed ourselves or make tools…My thing about God is not that S/He is compassionate at this moment – that God looks down and thinks "poor Matthew, what can I do to make him feel better?" is laughable to me – but that S/He is not the vengeful God of Calvin (and much of the funamentalist world). I cannot see God damning me to Hell for eternity simply because I practice birth control (or any of a number of other decisions that I make, thinking that what I do is for the good of the world even though they are at odds with the teachings of one Church or another.Come to think of it, I can't imagine God damning someone to Hell for calling Him/Her Allah or Buddha, (or Horus, for that matter).I am sure I bend my conditioning as well. And my perception of my reality, as well. The problem with the level of intelligence that I possess is that I am smart enough to convince myself of the most God-awful things, and not bright enough to see through my rationalizations.Momable: I recommend one of my favorite books to you: Simon Winchester's The Professor and the Madman. It's the story of the creation of the Oxfod English Dictionary. It's fascinating, it's cheap in paperback, and it's a relatively quick read. If you like words, you'll love the book.
yep, we are in the same boat. and i'm fed up with philosophy and religions… all of them. but i am still pursuing the question of existence and its significance. many times i've gone to the mountains and called it a vision quest but came back with scratches and aching muscles and bones instead. it was worth it for the hours by the campfire and the bright stars. i may never have a vision which reveals more of truth than i have found so far. and luckily, i have a working acceptance of self-determination and simplifying wherever possible. it's just dangerous to be alive. but what's the worst? you die. problem over. morally, i have simplified it to one sentence "if you think it's wrong, it probably is wrong… proceed at your own risk."good conversation matthew.so you're o.k. now mom? grrrr faded away?
"If you think it's wrong, it probably is wrong…"I like this, because it places responsibility where it belongs – on each of us. Sooner or later, excuses grow tiresome. If we don't accept responsibility for our shortcomings, we'll never enjoy peace or comfort.Yep, nice conversation, Scott. Thanks.
Grrr, gone! 🙂 Interesting comments, Scott and Noah. :heart:Hopefully someday I will read the book Noah recommends. It sounds like a good read.
I always find what you write or draw very interesting. Stories is how we pass stuff from generation to generation. In my eyes God is good and the reason the world is the way it is because of how good he is. He lets us choose how we act. Can't blame God for the bad stuff that happens. He gives us the ability to choose right or wrong. Very thought provoking post there artman. Keep em coming.
i am glad you could stop in for a dose of idle questioning. i think you're right. we can't blame god for anything. the problems of the world are entirely of our own making.
To the contrary, we can blame God for everything! As a species, we're pretty good at passing the buck. But, just because we blame others doesn't mean we aren't at fault.
There is a bit of God in us all, called a soul. I believe every sentient being that God made has a soul. Angels included. I have a friend that says that when God is in a good mood, he is God; when God is in a bad mood, he is the Devil. Ain't that something? If we are a duality, why not God?
When I was a kid, we had a visiting priest (Catholic), who contended heaven and hell were the same place – it was a matter of the favor in which God held you that determined your eternal experience. That's surely wasn't Church doctrine, but it fit with my conception.
Yes, we were taught by nuns; and then now, the priests in the Roman Catholic church say everything we were taught was wrong! I became Greek Orthodox and was tonsured. Then I found out they taught my children to be prejudiced against some peoples and I took them out of Greek Sunday School and Greek School and we don't go there any more.
Well I dont blame god for my problems I blame my self where it rightly should be. Hey scott when you get a chance drop by and check out my ghost story:) Keep up the beautiful artwork
i know what you mean sweet one4now,but like i've said before… "happiness comes when i stop beating myself up." no blame. i will come for the ghost story.
right you are mom.
Hey, I don't blame god for my problems, either.
I wonder if God blames me for my problems?
if he is more intelligent than i am, which has to be true, he knows exactly why i think some actions or inactions turned out to be objectively non-productive.
Which leads me to something else I wonder about, sometimes… Suppose God isn't all-knowing. Suppose God is just fumbling through all of this, hopefully learning as we go. Or, more artfully put, suppose God actually has to consider a response to a prayer? Does God have to weigh options, or is God so sure of what's right and what's wrong that there is no option?
deep questions for which, if there are answers, one must search beyond the material accumulated in our heads. what i mean is a higher state, call it mystical, if you wish, but a balanced seeing.but there are so many steps before this that it may never be understood. intuitively, i feel that god doesn't think like we do. he is just an intelligent force that manifests the laws of the universe. it's up to us to free ourselves from the more dense influences. then maybe we will have a vision of the essential perfection of it all.
I'm with you (God doesn't think like we do). It makes me chuckle to think we ascribe human characteristics to God. It is, perhaps, one of our densest influences – the inability to divorse ourselves from our frames of reference.
yeah, it would be like a dog thinking i might enjoy gnawing on his bone or an old shoe.thinking outside of the box… that's what all the greatest new ideas were like. we just are not comfortable with real sustained thinking, pondering, active dreaming etc. we are so conditioned to just follow our noses or 'the flow'. i don't think most people experiment or try to verify anything. you have to try every day to break the chains and get into the sunlight.like the man who complained to nasr eddin, "there's not enough light in my house."the mulla asked, "well, do you have a garden?", "yes, i have a garden.""is there enough light in the garden?" "yes." answered the man."then why don't you move your house into the garden?"
LOL.I worked with a man who doodled while other people were talking. At least, that's what people told me. Sure enough, I sat in a meeting with him, and he drew pictures the entire time. I was talkign to him afterwards, and he showed me his "doodles". Turns out, he had drawn the system we were discussing, all the actors, all the expectations, and had figured out what outside actors would be needed to make things happen, as well as points in the process that were susceptible to failure. Everyone was hung up on bits, and he had discerned the whole picture.I work with a woman who is adept at honing in on "the problem." She completely understands relationships. Even in situations where she doesn't understand the technology or know the people, she points out the trouble spot immediately. I wish I had that ability, but it takes me a lot of work to get there.My point is… Some people aren't bound by the constraints that the rest of us labor under. I like to think I'm insightful, but I have to work at it. Patience and contemplation. Some people just get it right away. Maybe they live outside the box. Maybe they see open spaces where we see boxes. I don't know.
In my humble opinion, God understands humans; God cares; God is lovely and a family person; God is love; God is gentle and kind with us since he knows our limitations.What if our planet is the insane asylumn of the universe and dimensions? That is a scarey thought. What if our planet is the toxic dump? Humans live just like viruses!!!! Still, I believe the Creator loves us. Creators always love their creations.After all, we all do get a "do-over" when we leave this existance, I believe. :up: